Unbound Ambitions; Career. Relationships. Wellbeing

What Happens When Women Refuse to Conform - An Interview with Paola Savva

• Penelope Magoulianiti • Season 5 • Episode 6

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Discover how to harness your ambition without apology in this enlightening episode of Unbound Ambitions. We sit down with Paola Savva, an inspirational leader and advocate for women's empowerment, who shares her transformative journey from the traditional corporate world to carving her unique path. 

This conversation highlights the importance of leading with empathy, embracing authenticity, and overcoming the guilt that often accompanies ambition in women.  

Paola reminds us that the journey starts with understanding oneself and recognizing the impact of societal conditioning on our ambitions. The episode culminates in a powerful reminder that when we prioritize our well-being, we have more to offer to those around us. Tune in for an inspiring dialogue that will empower you to embrace your true self, pursue your dreams fiercely, and refuse to be tamed.

Join us in this vital conversation, and don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review. 

Enjoy xox

P.S. You can learn more about my book, Claws Out, Living in a World That Wants You Tamed, here.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Unbound Ambitions, the podcast where aspirations meet action, dreams fuel drive and every ceiling is just another floor to break through. Here we celebrate the power of persistence, explore the art of balancing career and personal life and unlock the secrets to growth and fulfillment. Whether climbing the corporate ladder, navigating entrepreneurship or finding harmony in your daily life, unbound Ambitions is your companion in journeying toward your highest goals. Join us as we get real about challenges, present valuable information and equip you with insights for a life that's as thriving as it is grounded. Because here we believe your ambitions are just the beginning. And now your host, penelope Magilniti.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to another episode of Unbound Ambitions, and today I have a special treat for you. I have with me a very good friend, a great woman, an incredible human being, to do an interview together in the theme of close out, thriving in a world that wants you tamed. As you know, this is my new book that came out late last year, so with me I have Paola Sava. Welcome, paola.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, and thank you for having me into the Unbound Ambitions.

Speaker 2:

Paola. She is a master of ceremonies, she's a speaker, but she's also the organizer of she Inspires, she Cyprus events and seminars. And I was so lucky to meet Paola in another life, as I like to call it the life of the banking sector, the life of the corporate world. We were both employed by the same bank. How many years ago, paola?

Speaker 3:

That was 13 years ago. Oh my God, yes, no, 30 years ago.

Speaker 2:

One, three, 13 years ago oh my God, 13 years ago we were employed under the culture of corporate. Definitely how the world changed after that.

Speaker 3:

I found out that we have similarities in our path and, coming from the same corporate company, that was can I mention that? It was let's not say names, but we were both well and be of value where we were. At the same time, we had to decide in 2013, due to the economic crisis in Cyprus, to give up what we were doing. You, I think, for 25 years, 20 years, 20 years. You and think, for 25 years, 20 years, 20 years you and I was at my 30th year in that bank, in the financial institution. So it was a life.

Speaker 2:

We had a life there that actually resonated with us and also it has given us lessons, struggles and I and some good things not a lot of good things, mm-hmm, but, among others, a lot of pressure yeah, and I see it, and I believe you see too, as a cycle that it's over, it done all the round, that um history, that life is over, but now you are creating a new life, a more inspiring path, and I would like to ask you, what inspired you to create, to become the founder of she Inspires, she Cyprus?

Speaker 3:

First of all, I realized that I gave my passion, my energy and myself to a private financial institution. Instead of me building my dreams as I wish them, I was trying to fit in and, rather than being free to explore my possibilities Coming out of that financial base and financial platform, I was more. I had the wisdom and also to go and search, because I realized that by staying in the same tribe, the same circle of people doing what I did when I was there working for somebody else, I wouldn't go anywhere. So I had to go out of my comfort zone. I had to travel. I had to follow personal development lessons, seminars, conferences. I traveled to UK. I went to hear about Marc Aceta, tony Robbins I haven't seen him in person, but I was watching his videos and other mentors like Mel Robbins, jim Rohn.

Speaker 2:

The greats.

Speaker 3:

The greats, oh, the greats. But also another thing that I think we have in common is that I always believe that I don't have to lose my feminine Sight, sight in order to become a leader or in order to do my job. Yeah, which is a very, very common thing to see women who want to lead. They become an imitate, the man, the poor imitation of the man.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, and that is. I don't find it wise and it's not in our nature, so we have to embrace that we have were more sensitive. We are mothers, so we are mothers. So when I was leading women that they wanted to leave on time to go home, I was treating them different, while I was treated by my boss that, if I had to, that I am not a good employee and I didn't love my job. But he didn't know that I was going to my family because I wanted to have a balanced life and then at night, when everybody was sleeping, I was doing more work than they did yeah, and this is such an important subject because the book close out, it's all about staying true in your true nature.

Speaker 2:

don't try to change yourself to become someone else, because at the end it will come back and bite you and the and I'm so pleased lately working in the with the corporate, with women working in corporate, now coaching, to see that more and more women realize that they need to lead with empathy, they need to lead with courage, they need to impact in a totally different way than men do, because we are different. And to secure a seat on the table, we don't have to change ourselves.

Speaker 3:

we don't have to change who we are that's right and that is what I liked in your book. That and page 22 close out that true power lies not in conforming to others expectations but in illuminating the shadows of our own limiting beliefs. Only when we dare to see ourselves clearly can begin to roar with authentic strength. And that's Penelope Magnani saying that. But you're right. You're right. And if we don't realize that, by being us trying to develop and give value to what we do and to ourselves, we first have to see our well-being.

Speaker 3:

If we're not happy, we cannot give happiness. If we are not balanced, we cannot give balance to our surroundings. If we are not we, if we seek success only through our job but we don't have balance in our relationships or in our family, then really, really, that will not turn into a success I agree.

Speaker 2:

I agree with you 100% and I've interviewed you for this book and thank you so much for being part of this incredible journey Because I went and I interviewed women from around the world and my intention was to see if these rules that we follow as women, this conditioning that we find ourselves, it was just in our culture, in our Greek culture, and I was wondering maybe it's just us, maybe it's not someone else. But what I came to realize after conducting 33 interviews is that and also in the book there are my client stories I realized that it's a global phenomenon to be conditioned one way or another. We are conditioned by our society, we are conditioned by culture. Conditioned by our society, we are conditioned by culture. We are conditioned by our religion, by our parents, our teachers, in so many different ways. And when I interviewed you, we are talking about guilt, about success, about ambition and guilt, and I would like to ask you, paola, to share with us a moment in your life when you first realized you were ambitious. You were an ambitious woman women.

Speaker 3:

Well, I would state in one case in my life because I have more than that, I'm sure you do, but that was also something that people could see it, not people my surroundings I was in the bank, okay, and I used to work. Hardly Everybody was the customers mainly were very satisfied by me, and there was only one opportunity in the bank that time to apply for promotion. That was not common to give you an application and apply for it, but I was only 10 years old in the bank and I did apply. I remember that my boss came to make me change my mind because it was too early and I had to learn more and things like that. But I realized that something inside me said no, I'm ready, I'm ready to go to the next step. And while I was filling it, I was going to drop out, going back home, and I said to my husband look, my mother said that I should stay away from such things. I'm a woman, I have children. And, thank God, my husband, he said to me no, listen to yourself and you will do it, because I see what you do and I see that you love your job, so do it. Thank God he did say that and I had such a partner that he was supportive, a supportive person for me. So I did go ahead through my application with another two colleagues of mine.

Speaker 3:

In a month's time my boss came. He invited us up to his room, saying to the first one, congratulations, you got the job. To the second one, the same. And I was thinking in my head now he would tell me sorry, paola, I was telling you that you were not going to get the promotion. And then he really, really tell me congratulations for your promotion, congratulations for your promotion. I hugged him, I even kissed him, because I never expected having that promotion, even if I wanted it so much. Why?

Speaker 2:

My question is why you didn't expect the promotion.

Speaker 3:

My mother was very protective. She was always very kind, she loved me. My father was pushing me to do things, but I had that thing. I think it came to my subconscious mind from when I was younger, because my mother, she always cried when I told her I'm going to go for studying abroad and she was always crying that I'm not going to make it, I'm not going to. I'm very sensitive, I'm not going to do it. Why do I want to do studies? There is no need for that.

Speaker 2:

So the conditioning that we've been talking about.

Speaker 3:

She was telling this because of her love. I don't blame anybody, but somewhere, somewhere in my subconscious, even if I didn't, I, I said no, it's not this, it's not it. It came in, it rooted, yeah, into my mind yeah, and it.

Speaker 2:

And it takes me to the next question, because I know guilt might have been there, but I want to touch this question because it's the messages that we receive from young age that guided our younger years, that created our path, our journey, after a certain point, to be able to shred that identity and say, actually it's no longer serving me and now I want this, and this is what you've done. Actually, by applying for that promotion 10 years in someone, if it was a man and he had already 10 years career, he will say I will have five, three promotions by now, but a woman, of course, oh, of course, oh, maybe I'm not good enough, maybe I need to learn this, maybe I need to try them more, maybe I need to try harder, maybe. And when someone gives us something that we work so hard, we become so thankful like they are making it's, like they're making you a favor, a favor, yeah, thank you don't deserve it and that you have to say thank

Speaker 3:

you exactly, yeah but, uh, that is what I I want to say and remark that when you feel like you are capable of doing something and you show that with your actions because 10 years I was in action, even people the second in command of the bank, when I went and he met me for the first time, you know what did he say to the others? Aren't you, paola the lady? That if something they want to happen, they give it to you. So I was good in acting, acting, but I was not good in managing, yeah. So I was good in acting for the sake of others and to to please others or to help other, but I was not a good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you were a good problem solver yes, but for them you were a good problem solver, yes, but for them you were a good leader, a good manager.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, that is what I realized. And they were not giving me the right. I mean, people were talking about me, but they wanted to push me away. They didn't give me the satisfaction that I was good. They were trying to diminish me, to make me feel not worthy.

Speaker 2:

And I do hope that after we left the corporate world, things changed and if the younger generation is listening to us, they might think what are they talking about? This is not happening, which is gonna be my biggest joy as a woman to see women being valued for who they are, what they bring on the table, their strengths and know how much they please. Because when we please, we please, we diminish ourselves, we diminish our value, we don't believe that we are good enough. And judgment also, it's another thing that we face as women, and I think both men and women face judgment. But I want to touch this point. But I want to touch this point the inevitable criticism that a woman has when she's driven, goal-oriented. She knows where she wants to go. Have you been judged for being driven and goal-oriented?

Speaker 3:

Well, of course I had been judged. I will also tell you one story that when I was in a branch manager leading of five people, I was very, very expert in technology. I like technology, that's why one of my children she's a digital marketing consultant, but I was very quickly using the computer and using the type writer and whatever was in my mind I could just write it down in minutes.

Speaker 3:

so when I had to communicate with headquarters I didn't use the pen because while I was talking with a customer I was maybe I was doing taking notes and I was sending it through the mail the other day, but I was criticized by that, that I was losing time in writing and I was doing all these things, which I did it with a second, because they couldn't do it. Yeah, I was criticized and I was.

Speaker 2:

I went like a court to show them that for me it was nothing because they were, they couldn't do it, yeah and that's the other thing we used to try and they used to try and they used to try actually to keep us in a box. Yeah, because and it's happening everywhere, it's not just in our society, it's not just outdated thinking People love to be in a certain secured environment, which means anything new is scary. Yes, anything new is not preferred, especially in this type of environments in the old days. Now things change definitely they change with the ai.

Speaker 2:

Everything is changing right now, but again, where, dear listeners, I want to throw this question to you when do you find in yourself? Being in a box, meaning being afraid to show who you truly are, to step up, to show your power, to show your strength? Do you try to minimize, to lower your standards, maybe, or to dim your light to fit in? And if you do, why? What is the underlying belief here? This is how you start understanding if you are living your life based on the rules that society imposes to us, that culture imposes to us, that the system in general imposes to us, that culture imposed to us, that the system in general imposed to us.

Speaker 3:

You are absolutely right, and if you're not fit in, they try to put you out. So either you do that, but there is also a limit how you do it, because if you overdo it, it's like you are cheating yourself, it's like you are a criminal on yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And the more you do it, and then you just lose. Actually, you lose your control. They control you. You don't have the power and probably even they will just again let you down, so why should you put yourself down?

Speaker 2:

Exactly, you have to be liberated. Yeah, exactly, and it takes strength to do that and belief in yourself to do that. Yes, and you are such a woman, paola. I mean it's not just because we are friends for a long time, but, watching your journey from the moment you decided to step out of a career, that you worked so hard without a plan in place, because when we decided to resign from our role in the bank, both of us, we didn't have a plan. We didn't have a backup plan B or plan C. No, we didn't even have a plan A.

Speaker 3:

But not only we didn't have, there is a small difference as well. The money I worked for my pension fund was also due to the bail-in was vanished. So 30 years going out without nothing, not knowing what to do, and you are insecure. You feel insecure, but I have that thing from the moment I was. I never expected anything in my life, so my expectations were not high and I found out that sometimes it's good to have not to expect anything, but anything that comes to you, it looks like a gift.

Speaker 2:

Be grateful for it and I'm grateful for it.

Speaker 3:

And that is what keeps me going. Because I said, said, okay, I will survive, but I have to survive. And what do I do next? So I started searching, I started going out, I started listening. So I took every small thing, I tried to do a lot of things, help our life to with this. Then I said it's not me, I cannot do that. Then I try to find myself as a coach.

Speaker 3:

I did an lp, I so, but that helped me. Yeah, maybe I'm not an lp practitioner for others, but I know how the mind thinks, works, so it works and works and controls and everything. So that helped me again. By helping me, I found that I helped my family, I helped my husband, I helped my mother. I get more energy and more power to be by the side of others, and that's energy I got. Yeah, and I fulfilled. So one also is more advice I got from a friend. I didn't leave it as an advice, I just went and searched and now I'm a very good host, also in um. I don't have a lot of estates. I have two, three small apartments airbnb, airbnb, and I am one of the best hosts I have over nine. I'm a super host.

Speaker 2:

Nice and I know I wouldn't even consider you as not a good host, because I've attended many of the events that you've organized and when you do something with love, when you do something with passion, you cannot be other than great and this is what are you doing?

Speaker 3:

because I am. I've been watching you from the moment we met again outside the bank your passion, your strength and that thing that you wanted to tell women not to fit like you had to do and advisor to the corporate women, but also to women in general, that they don't have a balanced life and that conflicts with their relationships and their family and whatever else they're doing in their life.

Speaker 2:

And balance. When we say balance and balance can be, it's overused and also misguided many times. Balance is not 50-50. A balanced life doesn't mean, oh, I'm devoting 50% of my time in my job and 50% in my personal life. No, what's the right balance for you? What do you crave the most, what do you want the most?

Speaker 2:

And put yourself in the equation and it can be 20 you, 10 you and 90 the rest, but you have to be in the equation, otherwise the pillar, the main pillar of everything is you, and this is something that we forget as women. We forget to add ourselves on the equation as the most important piece, actually, yes, of everything. Because and this is not, uh, egoistical, or, you know, snobby, I don't know, yeah, and if you think like this and if your thought was, ooh, I cannot be the center, this is egoistic, this comes from an ego, does it? What happens, god forbid, if you collapse? What about your kids? What about your I don't know family structure? What about your business? If you are self-employed, like we are? What about your career? Everything comes down to you. Put your oxygen mask first, so you can help others, so others can benefit from you, from your strength, from your contribution, but you need to benefit. You nobody serves anyone when it's drained, when the emotional cup is empty.

Speaker 3:

I like that you said with the oxygen and specifically that you have to give yourself time. It's not has to be a lot of time, maybe that is. Half an hour is one hour, and I have been trained from a very young age to exercise. I was doing half marathon when I was young. That helped me go out and put my thoughts into more clear by having a lot of problems just one run being outside in the sea, seeing sunset and sunrise, or walk. Exercise is a very, very big thing that I would advise everybody and young mothers to train their children to love doing exercise wherever they can outdoors, walking, swimming. There are so many things you can do and if you cannot afford it, there is plenty of exercise to do outside, in the air, in the sea, and that's for free.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you just need the determination and the decision. Actually, it's a decision, yes, it's a decision. I need time for me. What do I go and do? How can I make this possible? And even if you have young kids 10 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour it's okay to leave them with your husband, it's okay to leave them with someone else. It's us that we decide. No, no, no, I can't.

Speaker 3:

Of course you can and of course you can. But also you get your oxygen. Yeah, when you are oxygenated, okay, that means you have power, you have drive, your even your face is more relaxed, so the children are more relaxed. Your husband is more relaxed and then you go energetically to do whatever you don't want to do. Exactly, If you do what you want to, then things you don't want to do they're more easy, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely, Definitely. So. This conversation is great. Yes, definitely so. Oh, this, this conversation is great. Yes, uh, but I think we have to close this and it's not gonna be the last conversation that we have. Um, we are working on something we are not gonna announce. To announce anything? No, no, no, it's going to be a surprise. It's going to be a surprise, but for now, I would like to ask you this. I would like to share your advice with everyone that listens to us and might be feeling guilty because they might want more for themselves, either for their careers, their finances, or even they might even want more from their relationship, from their intimate relationship, but they feel that either they are afraid to ask, or they feel guilty of asking of, or they feel guilty of wanting more. What's your advice?

Speaker 3:

um, first of all for their careers is that they must make their questions to themselves is it the right career for them? Is it actually what they want? What does career mean for them? If they want to succeed, they have to be balanced. They have to have the balance in their life, in their mind, and be happy. If they're happy and they're doing whatever they do with happiness, that's gross they will bring happiness to their house, to their children, to their husband, to their families, so that energy and that happy flows everywhere and they grow up. You don't need one promotion to be happy. Feel it and then promotion will come. And if that doesn't work, then think about changing. Find something else that might be more within you and resonate with you. That is my advice.

Speaker 2:

What a great advice Be grateful with what you have now. Exactly Be happy with what you have now and be open to receive more.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Yes, thank you so much, paolamo, for being here.

Speaker 3:

It was my pleasure and for those who would like to have, please, I would advise, read the Thriving in a World that Wants you Tamed Clause Out. Yeah, Thank you.

Speaker 2:

It's time for all women to get their clothes out yeah, the clothes out, let's close out.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much, my friend.

Speaker 2:

Thank you what an incredible conversation. I hope you're walking away from today's episode feeling inspired to own your ambition without apology. I want you to remember that your drive to succeed isn't something to feel guilty about. It's something to celebrate over and over. I want to thank Paola for sharing her wisdom and experiences with us today. Her journey is such a powerful reminder that ambition isn't the enemy here. It's the fuel that drives change, growth and impact.

Speaker 2:

And if you love this conversation, there's so much more to explore in the book Close Out Thriving in a World that Wants you Tamed. It's packed with stories like this. It's packed with strategies, interviews and tools to help you embrace who you are, to help you embrace your power and live unapologetically. So if you want to learn more about the book and where to find it, head over to Amazon. I will have the link in the show notes and go and search and find out. And, of course, if you know someone who needs to hear today's message, please share this episode with them. Don't forget to subscribe to Unbound Ambition so you never miss an episode packed with inspiration and tools for your journey. Thank you so much for tuning in today. So much for tuning in today and, as always, keep thriving, keep dreaming and never, ever let anyone tame your ambition. Until next time, much love.